Hey, everyone.
Welcome back to Friends with Fertility.
Today, we have Doctor.
Leslie Black.
Welcome Leslie.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Yes.
Thanks for being here.
She's a board certified naturopathic doctor specializing in women's health with a root cause.
Integrative approach.
She helps women navigate the complexities of chronic illness, hormone imbalances, environmental toxicity, fertility struggles, and postpartum mental health.
With advanced training and nutrient therapy, mold illness and functional diagnostics Doctor Black blends the art of compassionate care with the science of precision medicine.
She works primarily with women who feel dismissed by conventional systems those who are exhausted, inflamed, anxious, and stuck in cycles of trial and error medicine, and helps them reclaim vitality by uncovering what's really driving their symptoms.
She is a restaurant owner, part time chestnut farmer, and a mother of two, her passion for healing is rooted in personal experience and driven by relentless curiosity.
Whether she's supporting women through Paraminopause or helping a patient recover from hidden mold exposure, Doctor Black is committed to empowering women with their tools and knowledge that they need to thrive.
I I love that last part of it.
The empowering women.
I just said that again this morning on another podcast that I that's one of my favorite sayings is empowered women empower women.
Yes.
Um, so tell us a little bit of how you got into this.
That's a lot.
That's a big bio.
It's impressive.
Big bio.
Yes.
Um, honestly, how I got into really this particular field in terms of mold illness specifically, um, was because the clinic that I was working with in California, we had a lot of patients coming in that had been exposed to mold or had currently had mold illness, and they didn't really know what do.
And, of course, some of those were women who were wanting to get pregnant and were concerned about fertility, and I didn't have any word as in them.
And I didn't have the training or the background at that time.
So I thought, gosh, this, this is becoming kind of a big deal, you know, a a big issue, um, not just in California, but really, you know, worldwide.
And so I thought, um, this is something that I feel like I need to do with some more investigation, get some training, and learn how I can help these patients.
So, really, that's kinda how sorted.
Okay.
And I feel like you mentioned in the bio exhaustion and other hidden symptoms, so to speak.
I feel like mold is one of those mysteries that doesn't really get pointed at until until you are maybe with a naturopath or a functional or somebody that's a little bit outside of your western medicine and kind of goes left undiagnosed for many years unless you unless you go straight to them, which most Right.
You know, it is becoming more common for people to go to a naturopath.
But, um, why do you think that is? I think for a long time, especially in the conventional medicine model, know, when we think about mold or mode of mold exposure, it is often dismissed as well, you're not really having allergy symptoms.
You know, you're not really having the common things that we used to think were just associated or those symptoms were associated with mold.
Like, there's not other symptoms that can be associated.
So for a long time, I think people were dismissed with their symptoms, or they said, you know, maybe it's part of aging, or maybe it's this, and maybe it's that instead of really thinking, could this be mold exposure? Let's investigate that a little bit.
So at least that's that's been my experience with patients that have come to see us.
So, gosh, we thought this could be an issue for so long, but when I brought it up to my doctor, they were like, oh, that's not really a thing.
So And are these people that are aware that they're in situations that could potentially have mold, or is it like I've lived in new homes for years? I have no no idea that I would even have exposure to this.
Yeah.
Like, and then it happens? Or are they like, uh, it is kind of wet and damp where I live.
And I think this might be an issue.
Yeah.
I I've had I've really had both happen, and I've had some people that, come to our clinic, and a lot of them were were in a place.
They've been to a lot of different practitioners, and they've kind of done a lot of research on their own.
So they they say, I think I've been exposed to mold.
I think this could be an issue.
And we've had others that have been in new builds in a in an environment that they thought there'd be no way we have any type of exposure to mold, but surprisingly maybe their new build had a pinhole leak in a pipe, you know, during installation or something can always occur even in those new builds that could expose them to mold.
So I've really had both ends of the spectrum.
Okay.
Now you and I were just talking before we got on that I just moved to Tennessee from California, and we're gonna rental home, and there's literally no ventilation in the bathrooms here.
And I'm like, Yeah.
How are they not filled with mold, right? And it's like damp and wet.
And compared to California, it's a very dry climate for the most part.
So for people that are literally living somewhere that feels like this is a potential for that just by the state of no windows can open up or whatever.
Are there things that they can do to be proactive about that? Yeah.
Um, it's funny we say that because the house that we moved into also didn't have great ventilation in the bathroom and they have a window that does not open.
So I was like, that's great.
Yeah.
Um, so one of the things that I did personally was I would run a dehumidifier in there, like, when showering, you know.
Um, we ended up having event installed in the bathroom.
Of course, that's always the best option.
If you can, if you're in a rental, that's that's not always an option.
So you could leave the door open if you feel comfortable with that, or running a small dehumidifier in there can also help.
And just when you're, you know, you're finished with your shower, open that door as quickly as you can so you can kinda get some airflow in there.
Okay.
So that seems like the obvious thing for me, and or if, like you said, if there was a leak somewhere that we would know, like, but what are some of the non, not so obvious situations that people may have for exposure to mold that could be causing fertility issues or many other issues for that matter that they haven't quite realized.
Like, no, that's, like, we should look into this.
Yeah.
So are you talking specifically about exposure in the home or different exposures anywhere? Yeah.
So so some things that I have actually seen, um, they're actually I've had a couple of patients that have had exposure in their workplace, and they didn't realize that they were having exposure in their workplace.
And so if you do work out of the home, that might be something to consider.
You know, is there And are you just looking around in your work? Like, what how do you know? Yeah.
Most of the time, it's because of symptoms.
They started to manifest some symptoms, and those symptoms can vary depending on the person.
But I would say the majority start to feel tired all the time.
Maybe they're having increased brain fog or maybe they're have anxiety symptoms that they didn't have before.
And these are all kind of new things for them.
And they've done the full gamut of a workup, you know, looking at blood blood testing to make sure nothing was happening there.
And so then if all of that looked normal, like now let's start to invest to indicate some things that maybe could be contributing to your symptoms in the environment.
And so that's when, you know, we we go through usually do some testing for mycotoxin specifically to see.
And if they're elevated, We look at, okay, is there a potential exposure in the home? If not, let's look at where else you are.
Right? So I'm in a workplace that could potentially have that.
Maybe it's an old building.
Maybe they've had a water leak in the past.
Maybe the mold is coming from the HVAC system.
So there's so many different exposures that can be happening.
And so it's it's good to kind of go through, um, what where are they, you know, what environments are they in on a daily basis? You know, or even certain foods I've had I've had some patients, um, have major exposure from supplements, you know, supplements that contain mushrooms.
Right.
And so, like, okay, let's go through all your supplements.
Let's make sure you're not ingest you know, the microtoxin.
So yeah.
And I know a few years ago, I'm probably still now, but coffee was a big thing, right, as far as the toxins and coffee.
It's I I don't know if that's still really a thing or not.
I mean, again, this was probably fifteen years ago when that kinda hit my plate about learning about all of that.
But is that still something that people are It is.
Yes.
It definitely is.
And actually that was one of my major exposures.
Oh, okay.
Um, so, yes, it is still a thing.
And and and luckily, there are companies that, um, are more and more companies now are getting their certification, they're for mold testing, for their beans, and and they go through rigorous testing process to make sure those micro toxins are not there.
So for coffee lovers, there's still options.
I know back then there really wasn't a lot of options for that.
So that's good to know.
Yeah.
So again, fatigue and inflammation, um, brain fog, those are pretty general.
They are.
The symptoms for a lot of things.
Right? And I think that especially if you've had kids or maybe you're trying to have kids, Yeah.
It's like, I know for myself, even post kids, it was like, well, of course, I feel all that.
I am not sleeping.
I have three young kids and Yeah.
You know, at what point is the scale tip for you to say No.
There might be something else going on.
It's not just lack of uninterrupted sleep.
You know what I mean? Yeah.
Yeah.
There's something more.
There is.
And there's there's lots and lots and lots of symptoms that can be correlated with mold exposure.
And so usually what I do is we'll go through a pretty exhaustive list of things and say, okay.
Are you experiencing these things as well? Most of us are probably experiencing some level of fatigue as you know.
Brain fog probably.
So, um, so there's lots of, um, other symptoms that if if a lot of those are present, then we think to ourselves, um, this might be something that we want to investigate.
And again, if they're in maybe a home that they say, and this is a question I always ask, has there been a potential water leak? You know, has there been a potential exposure here? And if they say, you know what? Yeah.
Actually, I we had we did have a water leak So then if if we're looking through environment, a whole gamut of symptoms, and and if, again, a lot of times they've looked at other lab testing or other potential conditions that can be associated with these and those were ruled out, then this we're kinda digging a little deeper here and saying, okay, let this might be worth investigating.
Okay.
So next thing is how does the mold exposure correlate with fertility issues? Yeah.
So this is this is a big one.
Um, and I wouldn't be careful what I say here because, yes, mold can, as what we can, what we know from research is mold can contribute, you know, to potentially issues with fertility or infertility.
Um, it cannot be proven yet to be a standalone cause, but it definitely can contribute.
Um, so one of the the biggest ways that I see this happening is hormone disregulation.
So we may have a particular mold exposure.
This particular mold may produce a mycotoxin.
So for those that don't know what a mycotoxin is, it's a basic toxic byproduct of certain mold.
And so when we when we have something like that present, it can it can disrupt our, uh, hormone balance so we can see higher levels of estrogen or maybe lower levels of progesterone.
And that disruption in our hormone balance can obviously be something that just, you know, is difficult for us to conceive when we're having those disruption.
Um, and then we can also see it affecting thyroid, our thyroid health.
And I know you've talked about this several times on different of your podcast episodes.
It can disrupt thyroid.
And I've actually seen this clinically several times where we might have someone that initially has normal thyroid readings, uh, and then after a exposure, we can see, you know, presence of maybe hypothyroidism or hashimoto's, Um, so that that can definitely be a direct impact, you know, to that thyroid.
We can see adrenal health being affected by those mycotoxins as well.
So the foundations, I mean, really.
I mean, we're we're looking at major things that can impact your ability to conceive.
Okay.
So then what would the protocol look like to to help us get to a point where we can conceive and kind of make sure we're eliminating those to the best of their ability.
Sure.
So, um, usually, again, we would do a a mycotoxin test just to see, you know, is there presence of mycotoxin there? And if so, the in an ideal world, we would be able to detox that prior to conception.
And most of the patients that I work with, that is what we do.
So if, you know, we're we're thinking about, alright, I I want to conceive in this amount of time, and we have a a good window to be able to detox that out of the body.
And that looks various various different ways depending on the microtoxin that's present.
So, um, some of those things would be, you know, antioxidants, um, whether that be in supplements or, you know, our foods, certain certain foods are really, really wonderful for detoxing, mycotoxins.
Um, we can look at, um, just sweating, you know, sauna, hydration, elimination, making sure we're we're having bowel movement every day.
We're drinking plenty of water.
So those are just kind of basic basic things that we can do.
Yeah.
And I wanna just caution people who are listening because I think oftentimes they'll Google what is a mold detox look like.
Yes.
And then oftentimes those are pretty taxing on your body, especially if you're trying to conceive.
So I would warn against doing that and work with a practitioner to help you work through a proper protocol to detoxify your body appropriately for what it is specifically that you're working for because your body can essentially go into shock when you're trying to detox something.
Um, so beware of that.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, Google, in this case, is maybe not your friend.
Right.
So what are some of the subtle signs that may not be so obvious? Like the inflammation and the the chronic fatigue and things like that.
What else should somebody look out for to to to see something else is going on? Well, again, this is so individualized because every every person may have a different reaction to a particular mycotoxin.
Um, I've had patients have they'll say, I had this strange symptom where if I scratch my skin, it that that scratch basically stays on my skin for hours, you know.
It just it looks very strange.
The dermographia is one of those that, you know, we can see.
We can have chest pains, um, joint pain, um, muscle soreness, sinus symptoms, a lot of sinus congestion that just does not go away, you know, when trying when would be treated.
And do most people when they do a protocol to to detox their system, Do they, like, all of a sudden, like, oh my gosh, I can finally breathe.
I didn't realize I couldn't breathe, or I'm not having Right.
Chest symptoms or Yeah.
Is it pretty much like a light switch goes off or is even the recovery so to speak subtle as well.
Yeah.
Um, it does depend on the the the person in there.
Maybe their immune system, like how compromised is their immune system? How is their how are their detox pathways? Are they able to detox pretty well or is it slow clearance? So I've had patients start on maybe a nasal spray that we're targeting some colonization in the sinuses, and they start within a couple days, like, oh my gosh.
I I'm not having that congestion.
I'm not having those sinus headaches that I was having before.
And then I've had others where it takes months, you know, to see a result.
So it is it really is so, so independent upon the person.
Yeah.
I know.
It always sounds so cliche to say that, but it's so true.
And you want that to be true as well, right? Because I think when doctors tell you, it's gonna be, you know, thirty days this is gonna happen.
Yeah.
You kinda have to start to wonder because everybody's body is different.
Yes.
You know, I have my own issues.
Somebody else has something else.
So the combination of what you're doing, of course, it's gonna be different and should be different.
Yeah.
So I, again, I would just caution if somebody's reading something that says this is gonna happen within x amount of days, uh, to just be aware of that.
But those subtle indications, I think, are the hope that you're moving in the right direction.
Whether it happens overnight or it takes a while.
Yes.
And you're absolutely right.
The subtlety of the changes in those symptoms.
Uh, and that is it it that's very, very relevant for something with mold because, yeah, there could be maybe I slept through the night, and I haven't slept through the night in months, you know, just little little things where you start to see improvements.
Right.
So women and the whole holistic approach to women's wellness, what specifically got you kind of down that path as well because I think that that in and of itself is also a niche market, um, in this industry.
Actually, I'm gonna just, uh, point to a personal experience, which I'm sure a lot of people do.
Yeah.
Of course.
Probably, honestly, my interest in this happened maybe twenty ish years ago when I myself had a chronic health condition.
I had a, uh, a seizure disorder, really, of just unknown origin.
And It's scary.
It was.
It was very scary.
And I went to the conventional medicine model, you know, went to neurologists, went to some of the best neurologists, um, and and no one could really give me answers.
And and I'm kind of really as a woman at the time felt like, oh, you know, this could just be maybe a hormones or changing.
It's really not that big of a deal.
You know, we don't really have an answer, but it here's the medication, and you're gonna be fine.
And I didn't really love that.
I didn't love how it felt.
I didn't loved the feeling of being dismissed.
And I sought help out of desperation from a naturopath, uh, not a naturopathic doctor, but a naturopath.
Um, and she just completely changed my outlook on on how number one we should be addressing health and Eamon as a woman and the questions that she asked me, and it was a very much a holistic approach and the way that she was going through, um, symptoms and or just, you know, assessing my my whole issue as a as a person, you know, mentally, spiritually, physically.
And I'm like, my gosh, this is so different and new, and it felt good.
And I remember the day after I met with her.
Number one, I didn't feel as of right anymore.
And number two, I felt empowered to take control of my health.
And then I thought, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna do this.
Like, I wanna help people feel this way.
And so that's really where my interest started.
It took me a very long time to get here all of the schooling and completely different direction that I was going in at the time.
Um, but that is really when I decided this is the most amazing feeling I've ever had, and I wanna do this and help people.
That's awesome.
I think that the the whole aspect of a different avenue, so to speak, from the traditional medical doctor, is really opening the eyes of patient care to to know that there's more than just one way of thinking about things and almost if we don't look at our bodies in a holistic way, we're doing ourselves a disservice and no no offense to the medical doctors because there's a certainly a need for where they are and what they do as well.
But um, you know, they're really taught so specifically about what it is that they're specializing in, I guess, for a reason, but, but also, if you ask a medical doctor about supplements, they're like, you know, take it or not take it.
You know? I don't, um, and to be fair, they're not taught about that.
So, okay, that's fine.
But I feel like we're not we're no longer in a state of a place where we can't not integrate all of these other opportunities to help heal our body in different ways.
So if somebody's listening and they've only been seeing a medical doctor about one thing or another, give us some insight on what a naturopathic doctor can do and and help them to understand that.
Probably the biggest difference that I see is the the time that we spend with patients because in that conventional model, they're they don't have a whole lot of time to spend with patients.
And, you know, that's not their fault.
Obviously, it's kind of how that's set up.
But when you're meeting with a naturopathic doctor, we usually have a lot more time to spend and to really talk through your concerns and really figure out what are your goals? How can we reach those goals? What feels comfortable, you know, to you in terms of what your treatment plan is gonna look like? It it's it it needs to be a situation where you're working together, that partnership, and not just someone saying, here, do this.
And I don't really wanna hear what you have to say about that.
You know? So I think that's probably the biggest thing.
It's more of that partnership.
And I nowadays, I feel like patients are so educated.
Right? And they they know a lot about a lot of things.
Yeah.
And it's no longer really just hear the person in the white coat, and I'm gonna believe everything that they say.
You know, they they might say I read about x y z and I wanna try this.
And I think we also, as, as educated as patients are, I think we still also need to understand we're partnering and wanting to feel aligned with that doctor, but also they do they are educated in this.
Yeah.
You know? Yeah.
More so than just reading something on online.
Yeah.
You know what I mean? And I think sometimes I see patients really feel strongly about what they need to do and that's great, but also there is something else on the other side of that that we I just encourage patients to still stay open to the the feedback that that might not be the way for you.
Mhmm.
You know, even though you have learned about it and you know that.
Absolutely.
And the time spent with a naturopathic doctor, especially when you're going through something like fertility where it's most likely not gonna be a one and done type of relationship with that that practitioner is really, really important because this is, uh, arguably the most important thing you're gonna ever gonna do in your life.
And so regardless, you're setting your body up to be clear and in the best state possible to then, you know, conceive and have your children carry on whatever state your body is in at that time.
So I think sometimes people can get overwhelmed when they they do see a naturopathic doctor of like, oh my gosh.
Now I have to do all these things, or I thought I was going for this, right, now it's all these other things.
Right.
Um, but if you just take a step back and look at the big picture of your your life and your body as a whole and how this is serving you.
I think it all makes sense and just be patient with the process, I think is really helpful even because I'm not one of those people that sees results overnight really on anything.
And so that can be frustrating when you're putting a lot of work into something.
But knowing that in the big picture and the long haul, like, it's making a difference, and it will pay off, I just always tell people stick with it and know that it can't not be doing anything.
Right? You're moving the needle somewhere.
It may not be recognized at where you're at on a physical space.
Um, but just try to be patient with Absolutely.
So what do you recommend for patients to do when they're main they may not be seeing the results that they want to be seeing, and they've been at it for a long time? Yeah.
Celebrating the small wins, you know, and that's that's what I do with my patients.
And, like, the You know, you started here, but look where you are now.
You know, even if it feels like, my gosh, this is taking so long to get to the end goal.
But those small wins along the way, those are huge.
And they should be celebrated.
And the progress that that they're making and the time and the commitment, that's a big deal.
It's a big big deal.
So I I I do that all the time with my patients.
Like, hey, let's let's celebrate the fact that this happened or you're not having this symptom anymore.
It's amazing.
That is amazing.
Yeah.
And that I think the small changes add up to big results in the end.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And it doesn't always have to be this huge life changing event all the time.
Right.
So you're a restaurant owner.
Let's hear about this.
I wanna know more.
How did you get into that? Oh, well.
Know.
I know you're trained in nutrient therapy.
Is that any relation or Well, in a way, yes.
Um, my husband is from Italy and he is a chef and has always wanted to have his own restaurant.
And, um, we've talked in endless, endless times about nutrients and, um, just how nutrition can impact your body.
And, um, you know, he went through something very Gary a few years ago and at a young age was diagnosed with cancer.
And so, of course, but you know, that was a chance for us to really dive into that nutritional aspect and and all of all of the, tools that we could use, you know, to help with that.
And so, you know, since then, um, he's decided, you know what? I wanna have my own restaurant.
And so we have an Italian pizzeria, which I know when people say pizza, it's like, oh gosh, that's not that's not very healthy, but you know what? It it if food makes you happy, then yeah, it is.
It's if it makes you happy, then yes, it can be medicine.
And we do, you know, we do import all of our ingredients from Europe because, you know, they have a some cleaner products.
And so we do try our best to to keep it healthy, but I have to say that the happy part is where a lot of this comes in.
And it's so true.
Honestly years ago when I was doing some work around weight loss with patients and things like that.
That was one of the things that we really focused on.
And you would see, you know, you look at Italians or French or whatever.
It's the the true love and happiness for the food that that causes them not to Yep.
Gain weight, you know.
So if you could just, like, really get into that and be like, oh my god, this pizza is amazing.
Yeah.
It is.
And just focus on that.
Yeah.
It really shifts the the physiological part of your body to be like, okay, this isn't.
Hurting me.
Like, this is great.
This is making me happy and I love this food and whatever.
So I'm a 100% on board with that.
That's fun.
I'm sure that's an adventure in and of itself today.
Involved with.
It is.
It is.
It's a lot of fun, though.
I have to say.
It's been it's definitely been a joy, an unexpected joy, I'd say.
That's great.
Yeah.
And if you could ma wave a magic wand to fix any of the common symptoms that you see.
What common symptom would that be that you would wanna fix? Oh gosh.
Common symptom.
Um, I would say probably majority of what I see and experience myself would probably be fatigued.
You know, the fatigue.
And that looks can come in all shapes and sizes really depending on the person.
Um, just that's probably the one that I see a 100% of the time.
Yes.
So sign me out.
Yeah.
Right.
You could wave the magic wand, Mike.
Yes.
Yes, please.
In this energy, you're not gonna have to experience fatigue, you know, on a daily basis.
That probably would be it.
Yes.
Yeah.
Because I feel like for me, it's so hard to know.
Like, is there something going on, or is it just that, uh, you know, someone woke up last night.
I mean, with between the three of them, somebody is always waking up about something.
Yes.
Yeah.
Um, so, yeah, it's I, yeah, I would love that.
I keep the thing.
It's not gonna be like those forever.
No.
We'll get back back on track eventually, but we're definitely still in it.
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much.
Yeah.
Doctor Black for being here.
It was so nice to chat with you.
You as well.
And I think we've all learned a lot about just our awareness of the environment they were in and and how that can affect us not only with fertility, but in in other ways as well.
Absolutely.
Thanks so much.
Thank you
